Michael Dresdner » dye

Hand applied sunburst

Michael — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:00:12 +0000

Q: How do you recreate the look of the old style hand applied sunburst used on Gibson mandolins from the 1920s and 1930s?
A: The somewhat rough look of the inside ring of the sunburst comes from the old style hand applied sunburst as opposed to one that is sprayed on. It’s a moderately difficult technique that I described in an article I wrote back in the early 1980s in Vintage Guitar Bulletin. It involves working dye from the outside in onto a surface already fully wet with the solvent of the dye, to prevent it from grabbing too much.
For example, with water soluble dye, you start with a fairly weak dye mixture and a top fully wet with water. You work with two rags; one wet with solvent and the other with dye, and apply and wipe successively, creeping up on the color as you go.
Once the inside color is where you want it, remix the dye to a stronger concentration of the same color and do the same thing, this time staying closer to the outside edge. The first dye blends into the undyed center, the second blends part way into the first dye, and so on. Do as many color gradations as you like and need.
It takes some practice, and is one of those things that is hard to describe. It’s easier to learn if you actually get to see someone do it, which is why I have thus far avoided posting about it.

Bigleaf, big pattern

Michael — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:00:07 +0000

Q: I am making a cabinet door of solid cherry with a quilted maple panel. I want a bit of contrast between the cherry and maple and to show off the quilting in the maple. I was planning to stain the maple with a cherry color oil based stain and sand it lightly with 600 grit before applying wipe on polyurethane on the entire door.
A: Most quilted maple is western bigleaf maple, and unlike its eastern rock maple cousin, will absorb some pigmented stain. However, the ideal way to intensify grain in maple is to go with something that has a lower molecular weight. In the case of stains, that would be dye. A weak dye, flooded on and wiped off, will intensify the quilt pattern as well as adding color. Of course, an oil based finish, such as wipe on polyurethane, will add a slight amber color, which will also intensify the grain. In short, you don’t need stain to bring out the grain, though if your goal is to change the color to match the cherry, yet still pop the grain, dye is the way to go.

Sunburst by hand

Michael — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:00:04 +0000

Q: I read somewhere that the first sunburst finishes were produced by hand. Can you describe how this was done?
A: I can and have. Many years ago (1983, if I recall) I described the process at length in an article for Vintage Guitar Bulletin. That piece later became part of a small book or booklet called Restoration Clinic, which sadly, is now out of print. Though it was written on computer, those were the days of large floppy disks, and I no longer have it on media or I would simply send it to you. It’s a bit long for a blog entry, but if there was enough call for it I could retype it onto more current computer media and post it somewhere. However, to be honest, you’re the first person to ask me how to do that in years. If your goal is more than idle curiosity, email me and I’ll make it available again.

Bleeding sunburst

Michael — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:00:53 +0000

Q: I stained a guitar red/brown using water soluble dye. After the stain was dry, I dry brushed dark brown water soluble dye around the edges, fading toward the center for a sunburst-like finish. Clear lacquer coats finished the job. Will the dyes bleed into each other over time and become unattractive?
A: No. Water soluble dye will not bleed into solvent based lacquer. It will bleed into waterbased finish, though. However, bleeding is not your main problem.
Dye without binder added, as is typical for water soluble dye, will dry back to a powder once the water is gone. Thus, the strategy is to let it soak into wood, but wipe off anything that does not soak in. Dye brushed onto the surface and left there will dry and leave a layer of powdered crystals on the wood’s surface. That could cause future coats to delaminate, since they can’t adhere to a layer of powder unless they are able to dissolve it, and solvent based lacquer can not dissolve water soluble dye. In short, you have set the stage for your finish to peel at some future date.

Mixing vs. buying stain

Michael — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:00:30 +0000

Q: When you say to control the color by how you mix the stain not how you apply I am a little confused. My stain is premixed. It is General Finishes water based dye stain. Can that be thinned using water and do I need to thin it?
A: You can thin any stain, should you need to, but most pre-mixed stains are designed to be used as is from the can, which means you can make it weaker but not stronger. That’s one reason most finishers prefer dye concentrates or powders, which allow them more flexibility in stain control. Such raw ingredients also allow you to omit or add binder as you choose. Pre-mixed stains offer convenience, but the price of that convenience is reduced versatility.

Just a shmear

Michael — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:00:59 +0000

Q: If I brush on a final finish, will it cause water based dye stain to bleed into the finish on the brush and smear?
A: Water soluble dye can bleed onto a brush loaded with waterbased finish. Whether that will be enough to smear the stain also depends on your brushing technique and how aggressively you wiped the dye originally. It is also worth noting that some dye stains contain a binder that will prevent this. Others don’t.

Dye another day

Michael — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:00:25 +0000

Q: I am about to start staining and finishing my new maple kitchen cabinets. I decided to use a dye stain. On my sample pieces I applied a wood conditioner then lightly sanded, then applied the stain to the color I wanted.
A: Dyes work best on raw wood. Wood conditioners work by inhibiting stain absorption. Putting the two together seems like working against yourself. Water soluble dyes penetrate maple well and are very easy to use; flood them onto raw, well sanded wood liberally, then wipe the stain off thoroughly, leaving only what the wood has absorbed. Control the color intensity by how you mix the stain, not by how you apply it.

Odds of even

Michael — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:49:19 +0000

Q: I built a small table from reclaimed mahogany. There is a lot of variance in the colour and grain pattern. I want to stain this so to even out the colour. What do you recommend?
A: Most pigmented stains work very well on mahogany to even coloration, in large part because they take full advantage of the large pores. In extreme cases, we usually use a two stage approach to making wildly varying woods look one color; we start by making the background uniform with a dye stain, usually in a color in between the darkest and lightest values to bring the two together. Once the dye is dry, we follow up with a pigmented stain to add unifying color atop the dye and in the pores. It works surprisingly well.

Gel dye

Michael — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:00:51 +0000

Q: I am trying to find the gel base for water based dyes. Do you have formula or resource to this gel base, and does anyone make water base dye gels?
A: I used to. Back in the late 80’s to 1995, my wife ran a company called Clearwater Color Company, making waterbased gel dye stains for woodworkers based on a patent pending formula of mine. We eventually sold the company and it continued for a few more years, but I am told it has now dissolved. I have thought about once again offering the stains if there proved to be enough desire for them, but to date, I have not had enough call to do so. To the best of my knowledge, no one else ever offered a waterbased dye in a gel form. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as adding dye to a gel base; the entire mixture was somewhat delicate to create and the various components had to be added in just the right sequence for it to work. Incidentally, I still have some containers of the stain, now 15 years old, and it still works fine.

Fishy finish

Michael — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 14:00:06 +0000

Q: I stripped an oak fish tank stand and applied two heavy coats of espresso colored Varathane oil stain, leaving it sit one hour before wiping it off. I then applied two heavy coats of Watco Teak Oil and left them overnight. I found a sticky, gooey mess in the morning. When I tried to remove it using more Teak Oil, much of the color came off as well.
A: I am not surprised. Stain is meant to be wiped on and wiped off completely, leaving only what the wood can absorb. Layering it on heavily or leaving it longer won’t result in anything but trouble. Granted, more porous woods, like poplar, will absorb more stain than a dense wood like oak, and will get darker. The fact that stain came off when you scrubbed off the excess finish is an indicator that you left more on the wood than it was able to absorb.
The way around that is to use multiple types of color, not try to force one stain to override the nature of the wood you are putting it on. For instance, to get a very dark espresso, I’d start with a dark brownish black water soluble dye directly onto the raw, sanded wood, then follow that, when the dye was dry, with a dark wiping stain flooded on and wiped off. The combination will give you a dark, even color with wood grain still showing.
Teak oil is also meant to be wiped off in 15 minutes, not overnight, and letting it sit that long will indeed create a sticky mess. The simple answer is you really should read the directions and do what they say. At this point, you would be very wise to remove it all and start over.
Incidentally, Teak Oil, which is the exterior version of Danish oil, is not the finish I would have chosen in this case, for a variety of reasons that I have covered in previous posts. I’d have chosen an oil based polyurethane, either wipe on, gel or brush on, and I would go with several coats at least.